AvSRoCkCO1067
Aug 6, 02:21 PM
I think that the option disappeared when the wireless Mighty Mouse came out.
You're correct - Apple may be working out bundle pricing, but I think they would've worked that it before hand - to be honest, I think one of the following possibilities is likely:
1. They no longer offer the bundle, instead profiting off of users that want wireless by making them purchase the wireless MM and keyboard seperately (sad, I know, but possible....)
2. They offer the wireless configuration standard with any new iMac.
You're correct - Apple may be working out bundle pricing, but I think they would've worked that it before hand - to be honest, I think one of the following possibilities is likely:
1. They no longer offer the bundle, instead profiting off of users that want wireless by making them purchase the wireless MM and keyboard seperately (sad, I know, but possible....)
2. They offer the wireless configuration standard with any new iMac.
Multimedia
Aug 19, 08:51 PM
I also find it amusing when I see posters participating in Macpro discussions when they have publicly stated that they have no intention of buying a Macpro. WTF?? Don't they have a life outside of macrumors? If I owned a G5 Quad and had no intention of buying a Macpro, I'd be spending all of my spare time doing cool stuff with my machine... instead of wasting that time participating in discussions that have nothing to do with me. I might read though some of the threads now and then, just to keep up with technology - but to particpate and debate, what a waste. I guess some folks have no life.While it is true I have no life, it is not true I have fully decided to skip buying a Mac Pro. These discussions have lead me to a place of indecision about it rather than what I previously thought, which was to skip it. I never intended to talk anyone out of buying one if they want one. And I never intended to talk bad dirt against it. My apologies to anyone who thought I did. :(
My hearty congratulations to all who have taken the Mac Pro plunge already.
I am also waiting to see what the full scope of Core 2 offerings will be as I want a 17" Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro more first.
As far as the comment that Toast and Handbrake can use all four cores goes, Toast definitely does in the Mac Pro and if you add a significant action to the Quad G5, it will negatively impact the 2-3 core performance of Handbrake as well as Toast. That is what I meant. If it wasn't clear before now, I apologize for the imcomplete explanation of my meaning.
I feel misunderstood by some of you. No harm intended. Not anti-Mac Pro at all. Not trying to ratinoalize Quad G5 as somehow better - no way. Not trying to negatively impact Mac Pro sales. I'm totally Pro Mac Pro. Regret the misunderstanding. Wish I hadn't hurt some people's feelings. :o
My hearty congratulations to all who have taken the Mac Pro plunge already.
I am also waiting to see what the full scope of Core 2 offerings will be as I want a 17" Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro more first.
As far as the comment that Toast and Handbrake can use all four cores goes, Toast definitely does in the Mac Pro and if you add a significant action to the Quad G5, it will negatively impact the 2-3 core performance of Handbrake as well as Toast. That is what I meant. If it wasn't clear before now, I apologize for the imcomplete explanation of my meaning.
I feel misunderstood by some of you. No harm intended. Not anti-Mac Pro at all. Not trying to ratinoalize Quad G5 as somehow better - no way. Not trying to negatively impact Mac Pro sales. I'm totally Pro Mac Pro. Regret the misunderstanding. Wish I hadn't hurt some people's feelings. :o
Burnsey
Apr 27, 09:23 PM
Technically he is eligible to be president even if he wasn't born in the US:
http://blogs.forbes.com/danielfreedman/2011/04/12/romney-to-trump-obama-doesnt-need-a-birth-certificate/
Not sure why this is such a big issue, the country is facing huge problems and you people need to work together and solve them. Set these distractions aside or you'll miss what's really going on.
http://blogs.forbes.com/danielfreedman/2011/04/12/romney-to-trump-obama-doesnt-need-a-birth-certificate/
Not sure why this is such a big issue, the country is facing huge problems and you people need to work together and solve them. Set these distractions aside or you'll miss what's really going on.
amin
Aug 19, 09:42 AM
You make good points. I guess we'll learn more as more information becomes available.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
kavika411
Mar 24, 02:10 PM
Where did I make that statement? :confused:
Fair enough. Let's do it this way. Why did you inject "WASP" into a conversation about racism? What point were you making about a "vast majority of WASPs" comprising conservatives. Last time I checked, your injection into the conversation was to defend rdowns supposition that those against Obama are against him because of his "color."
Are you saying that the conservatives' broader strategy for opposing liberals in congress is totally unrelated to their (disingenuous) opposition to intervention in Libya? That's quite rich.
I wish I were, but alas, I believe my comment was rather straight forward - very few words even. But I'll rephrase: It is asinine to hide behind accusations of racism against people who disagree with Obama on his ongoing and new military campaigns. I believe that is as straightforward as I know how to be, but feel free to respond with another question that is both rhetorical and a red herring to what was being discussed.
I don't see why I should try to find a link that supports your mischaracterization of my statements.
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Fair enough. Let's do it this way. Why did you inject "WASP" into a conversation about racism? What point were you making about a "vast majority of WASPs" comprising conservatives. Last time I checked, your injection into the conversation was to defend rdowns supposition that those against Obama are against him because of his "color."
Are you saying that the conservatives' broader strategy for opposing liberals in congress is totally unrelated to their (disingenuous) opposition to intervention in Libya? That's quite rich.
I wish I were, but alas, I believe my comment was rather straight forward - very few words even. But I'll rephrase: It is asinine to hide behind accusations of racism against people who disagree with Obama on his ongoing and new military campaigns. I believe that is as straightforward as I know how to be, but feel free to respond with another question that is both rhetorical and a red herring to what was being discussed.
I don't see why I should try to find a link that supports your mischaracterization of my statements.
Silentwave
Jul 15, 01:10 AM
It would be ridiculous if it came with just 512 mb's of ram...
Steve Jobs-"The New Octa-Core Mac Pro with 512 mb's of ram" It just doesn't fit...
I honestly think it'll have 1GB standard- they can save money by not having to bother with FB-DIMM 512s. its cheaper to just get 1 and 2 gig increments.
Steve Jobs-"The New Octa-Core Mac Pro with 512 mb's of ram" It just doesn't fit...
I honestly think it'll have 1GB standard- they can save money by not having to bother with FB-DIMM 512s. its cheaper to just get 1 and 2 gig increments.
robotx21
Sep 19, 12:51 PM
I'm kinda glad they didn't release the macbook pro's today. All that means, if they are released next week, it will be more than just a minor update :-D Here's to hoping!
yfile
Apr 6, 04:42 AM
.. I never use it, but I use Motion and Soundtrack a lot and I need true 3D in Motion, even simply 3D. I need no crashing Motion. I need optimised and 64-bit Motion. I want it now, please!
AvSRoCkCO1067
Sep 18, 11:33 PM
I still think it's funny that everyone thinks these Macbook Pros are "long overdue" - when, exactly, did the FIRST Dell laptop with C2D ship? I thought it was supposed to be around tomorrow...but surely it couldn't have been before last Monday or so at the earliest.
So that's, what? A week behind in the worst case scenario? Oh God...
However - if they waited till November, then yeah, I'd agree that they were overdue...:)
So that's, what? A week behind in the worst case scenario? Oh God...
However - if they waited till November, then yeah, I'd agree that they were overdue...:)
EagerDragon
Aug 26, 10:14 AM
I am sure the customer support is not good in non-US.
Unfortunately Apple is not maintainly a high quality of customer support service throughout the world. It seems Apple is neglecting the areas which is growing fast. This will certainly hinder the growth of Mac OS market share.
HEY MACRUMORS personnel, how about creating a poll that ask people that are unhappy with Apple support their region of the world and then share that with Apple and the media. Maybe we can get some fire under their butts and get these people some well deserved help and good service. Please Help!!!!
Most of these people pay more for their MAC thatn we in the US do, I would think they should get at least the same level of quality in service and in hardware. They are also part of our MAC family.
Unfortunately Apple is not maintainly a high quality of customer support service throughout the world. It seems Apple is neglecting the areas which is growing fast. This will certainly hinder the growth of Mac OS market share.
HEY MACRUMORS personnel, how about creating a poll that ask people that are unhappy with Apple support their region of the world and then share that with Apple and the media. Maybe we can get some fire under their butts and get these people some well deserved help and good service. Please Help!!!!
Most of these people pay more for their MAC thatn we in the US do, I would think they should get at least the same level of quality in service and in hardware. They are also part of our MAC family.
70355
Aug 7, 03:53 PM
What I like to say to PC fans that rip on Macs is this: Buy a Mac, use it for a year, and come back to me. Then if you still don't like Macs then at least you have supporting evidence, however I doubt that will be the case!
That's quite an offer. I'm sure you get a lot of takers.:rolleyes:
That's quite an offer. I'm sure you get a lot of takers.:rolleyes:
62tele
Apr 11, 06:02 PM
Disappointing. I can't wait until year's end. I didn't buy the 4 because of the antenna plus lousy ATT coverage in my area. My iPhone 3GS is getting long in the tooth!
Steve is wrong about Google trying kill the iPhone. Apple may beat 'em to it!
Steve is wrong about Google trying kill the iPhone. Apple may beat 'em to it!
DeathChill
Aug 7, 08:33 PM
Well I wouldn't say "Nothing" as obviously it required a lot of programmer time to move the OS to Intel, create the new XCode compiler, create & debug rosetta, re-write all of the iLife, and Pro-Apps offered by Apple, etc. etc.
Eh, they didn't create Rosetta, Transitive did. The creation of XCode was already done, they just added a package so Intel compiling was possible. They didn't rewrite all of iLife or any of the pro-apps, did they? All they did was fix anything that relied on PowerPC in order to make them Universal.
However, I want to know if the developers are getting a copy of Leopard within the next few days!
Eh, they didn't create Rosetta, Transitive did. The creation of XCode was already done, they just added a package so Intel compiling was possible. They didn't rewrite all of iLife or any of the pro-apps, did they? All they did was fix anything that relied on PowerPC in order to make them Universal.
However, I want to know if the developers are getting a copy of Leopard within the next few days!
emotion
Aug 11, 10:20 AM
What OS will the iPhone be running? :confused:
If people want a Treo replacement, you are going to have top consider whether:
1. calendar - hopefully you can port over Palm to iCal
2. contacts - to Mail/Address book
3. will there be a keyboard - personally I send a lot of mail/texts so would want to keep the "thumb-board" ;)
I think the device is likely to be iPod based (the underlying OS can handle a lot more than audio and video playback i think).
I'd love some thumb board capability but nt at the expense of size. If this thing is a brick it's not gonna work out.
If people want a Treo replacement, you are going to have top consider whether:
1. calendar - hopefully you can port over Palm to iCal
2. contacts - to Mail/Address book
3. will there be a keyboard - personally I send a lot of mail/texts so would want to keep the "thumb-board" ;)
I think the device is likely to be iPod based (the underlying OS can handle a lot more than audio and video playback i think).
I'd love some thumb board capability but nt at the expense of size. If this thing is a brick it's not gonna work out.
vgermax
Jul 14, 03:02 PM
It would be unlikely that Apple wouldn't utilize the highest clocked Xeons available. Also, quad configurations should be present in more than just the top-end unit as that is one of the main advantages of going with the Woodcrest versus Conroe, that and a higher default FSB.
The video card configurations are also previous generation. I don't know for certain, but it seems the PCIe configuration isn't consistent with the information available on the i5000X. The standard Intel design is 1 x16, 2 x4 (with x8 slots) for a total of 24 lanes, not 16 or 32 as might be interpreted from the "spec" sheet.
It might also be reasonable to expect an optional RAID configuration as a RAID controller is built-in to the southbridge.
The video card configurations are also previous generation. I don't know for certain, but it seems the PCIe configuration isn't consistent with the information available on the i5000X. The standard Intel design is 1 x16, 2 x4 (with x8 slots) for a total of 24 lanes, not 16 or 32 as might be interpreted from the "spec" sheet.
It might also be reasonable to expect an optional RAID configuration as a RAID controller is built-in to the southbridge.
DEE9299
Jun 23, 08:14 AM
has anyone gotten a phone call from radio shack yet.?
mkruck
Apr 6, 03:10 PM
Ok ok ok... xoom, ipad, whatever...
you'd rather have a hamburger than a delicious, melty CHEESEBURGER?
Frigging hamburger fanbois... :p
You busted me.
I am a hamburger fanboi, and will turn into a raving lunatic, foam at the mouth and make up opinions based on nothing all to defend my beloved hamburgers. After all they're lighter, slimmer and tastier than cheesburgers!!!
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
you'd rather have a hamburger than a delicious, melty CHEESEBURGER?
Frigging hamburger fanbois... :p
You busted me.
I am a hamburger fanboi, and will turn into a raving lunatic, foam at the mouth and make up opinions based on nothing all to defend my beloved hamburgers. After all they're lighter, slimmer and tastier than cheesburgers!!!
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
milozauckerman
Jul 14, 02:54 PM
Without a doubt. And in keeping with long tradition, the "less expensive" name-brand PC will mysteriously come with less (ports, software, even speed if Netburst lingers) than the Mac
I'm talking about Core2 Duo machines - either Conroe or Woodcrest.
Ports? My G5 tower had no more ports than any other PC I've seen. My current CD iMac actually lacks any kind of high-speed port for external hard-drives or burners.
Software? OK, I know it's supposed to be a selling point, but there's not a damn thing outside of iTunes I use in iLife enough to justify hardware prices at any level. They're nice freebies, but I happily pay the Apple Tax to have an OS that works with me rather than against me. Unquestionably worth it, but I'm not going to pretend that I'm getting good value in the (theoretical) hardware.
I think I know what the apologists will say - no one else will offer Woodcrest in a low-end pro machine, they'll use Conroe. And yeah, that's probably true, but for a reason - there's no reason to put Woodcrest in the low-end tower offering, aside from a desire to perpetuate the artifical line distinctions. Which isn't going to cut it in the Intel world.
I'm talking about Core2 Duo machines - either Conroe or Woodcrest.
Ports? My G5 tower had no more ports than any other PC I've seen. My current CD iMac actually lacks any kind of high-speed port for external hard-drives or burners.
Software? OK, I know it's supposed to be a selling point, but there's not a damn thing outside of iTunes I use in iLife enough to justify hardware prices at any level. They're nice freebies, but I happily pay the Apple Tax to have an OS that works with me rather than against me. Unquestionably worth it, but I'm not going to pretend that I'm getting good value in the (theoretical) hardware.
I think I know what the apologists will say - no one else will offer Woodcrest in a low-end pro machine, they'll use Conroe. And yeah, that's probably true, but for a reason - there's no reason to put Woodcrest in the low-end tower offering, aside from a desire to perpetuate the artifical line distinctions. Which isn't going to cut it in the Intel world.
bokdol
Aug 18, 09:48 AM
you take everything east of kansas and i will take the western region of the usa
when we have enough money, i can go raid asia and australia/new zealand for old G5s and you can go after europe and the middle east
when we are done we will be rich and could sit on the same oil board as bin laden, dick cheney, and several of the bush family members
and based on who is taller, one of us could be dr. evil and the other one will be mini me
sound good?
damn and i wanted asia... ahh but europe wont be too bad. damn it i am 5'7 so i might end up with the short end of the stick.
when we have enough money, i can go raid asia and australia/new zealand for old G5s and you can go after europe and the middle east
when we are done we will be rich and could sit on the same oil board as bin laden, dick cheney, and several of the bush family members
and based on who is taller, one of us could be dr. evil and the other one will be mini me
sound good?
damn and i wanted asia... ahh but europe wont be too bad. damn it i am 5'7 so i might end up with the short end of the stick.
bigandy
Aug 25, 03:10 PM
the vocal minority are always the ones who have problems :rolleyes:
milo
Jul 20, 04:34 PM
I think Logic can only use two cores/processors with a cludge to use the other two on a quad (by pretending it's a remote machine). Someone told me this though so I'm not 100% on that.
This is true. Logic will use up to about half the available processing power. Using the kludge (which is pretty simple but has some limitations) you can get close to all of it. Which allows for a ton more power than any of the dual G5s.
Still, apple needs to update Logic ASAP to use the full power without a hack. I can't believe it's taken them this long, they BETTER make the fix for all quad machines and not just intel boxes.
I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but Kentsfield will not be appearing in any of the Pro machines for some time.
Apple will be using them exclusively in the Xserves, at for the most part of 2007. This will finally give Apple another way to distinguish their server line from their pro line.
I don't buy that. Apple needs a workstation machine with the fastest available chips. PC's will use them in workstations, it would make no sense to cripple the top of the line desktop machine! Servers are distinguished from the pro line because they have a completely different form factor and feature set, no need to add artificial distincions.
Neither Apple or Dell operate in bubbles. They both realize that these chips belong in real servers and also requires an OS that can support such chips.
You don't think ANY pc makers will ship workstations with kentsfield? Why not? This is a chip that would be perfect for a workstation, you think nobody will take the opportunity to use it? The chips are fast as hell, what makes you think they only belong in servers? Are there features that can only be taken advantage of in a server and not in a workstation?
This is true. Logic will use up to about half the available processing power. Using the kludge (which is pretty simple but has some limitations) you can get close to all of it. Which allows for a ton more power than any of the dual G5s.
Still, apple needs to update Logic ASAP to use the full power without a hack. I can't believe it's taken them this long, they BETTER make the fix for all quad machines and not just intel boxes.
I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but Kentsfield will not be appearing in any of the Pro machines for some time.
Apple will be using them exclusively in the Xserves, at for the most part of 2007. This will finally give Apple another way to distinguish their server line from their pro line.
I don't buy that. Apple needs a workstation machine with the fastest available chips. PC's will use them in workstations, it would make no sense to cripple the top of the line desktop machine! Servers are distinguished from the pro line because they have a completely different form factor and feature set, no need to add artificial distincions.
Neither Apple or Dell operate in bubbles. They both realize that these chips belong in real servers and also requires an OS that can support such chips.
You don't think ANY pc makers will ship workstations with kentsfield? Why not? This is a chip that would be perfect for a workstation, you think nobody will take the opportunity to use it? The chips are fast as hell, what makes you think they only belong in servers? Are there features that can only be taken advantage of in a server and not in a workstation?
maclaptop
Apr 11, 04:58 PM
Apple can create Christmas any day of the year.
Only amongst those who's entirely sad life, waits in anticipation.
All the while, most of us have much richer, more well balanced lives.
Only amongst those who's entirely sad life, waits in anticipation.
All the while, most of us have much richer, more well balanced lives.
brepublican
Aug 7, 11:28 PM
Woah! This is heavy stuff. Lot of eye candy in Core Animation :cool:
BGil
Aug 7, 04:42 PM
Which takes us back to the behavior that was the default on VAX systems running VMS 20 years ago... Microsoft is implementing something similar in Vista as well. http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060730-7383.html
B
Yeah, Apple is definitely copying Microsoft now... it's pretty undeniable. Time Machine is virtually identical to Microsoft's backup system for Vista.
"Previous Docs" from Wikipedia:
"Previous Versions", previously known as Volume Shadow Copy in Windows Server provides read-only snapshots of files on local or network volumes from an earlier point in time. A new tab in the Properties dialog for any file or folder provides users with straightforward access to these previous versions.
System Restore, Shadow Copy, and Backup in Vista now run on the same technology (so they are considerably different than the XP versions).
iChat basically got the remote screen sharing feature that Microsoft shipped with XP in 2001 (included in Windows Messenger) and the presentation/app sharing features from Windows collaboration in Vista.
Mail and iCal got a bunch of features from Outlook 2007 and Windows Live Calendar/Mail.
Dashboard's ability to clip web pages is straight out of Active Desktop.
the Spotlight improvements were things that Indexing Server in XP/2000/2003 already did. Even windows desktop search (enterprise) and Vista include that functionality as well.
Spaces is virtual desktops just like the powertoy MS released years ago
http://www.snapfiles.com/reviews/Virtual_Desktop_Manager_Powertoy/msvdm.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_desktop
Core Animation looks like Apple's response to all the DX and WPF (Avalon) animation tools in Vista.
B
Yeah, Apple is definitely copying Microsoft now... it's pretty undeniable. Time Machine is virtually identical to Microsoft's backup system for Vista.
"Previous Docs" from Wikipedia:
"Previous Versions", previously known as Volume Shadow Copy in Windows Server provides read-only snapshots of files on local or network volumes from an earlier point in time. A new tab in the Properties dialog for any file or folder provides users with straightforward access to these previous versions.
System Restore, Shadow Copy, and Backup in Vista now run on the same technology (so they are considerably different than the XP versions).
iChat basically got the remote screen sharing feature that Microsoft shipped with XP in 2001 (included in Windows Messenger) and the presentation/app sharing features from Windows collaboration in Vista.
Mail and iCal got a bunch of features from Outlook 2007 and Windows Live Calendar/Mail.
Dashboard's ability to clip web pages is straight out of Active Desktop.
the Spotlight improvements were things that Indexing Server in XP/2000/2003 already did. Even windows desktop search (enterprise) and Vista include that functionality as well.
Spaces is virtual desktops just like the powertoy MS released years ago
http://www.snapfiles.com/reviews/Virtual_Desktop_Manager_Powertoy/msvdm.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_desktop
Core Animation looks like Apple's response to all the DX and WPF (Avalon) animation tools in Vista.
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